A General Question

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A General Question

Postby JMiskimen » Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:03 pm

First of all, I'm not trolling this site or anyone who is a member; I have a legitimate question to ask because I keep coming back to it when I consider Swords & Wizardry. I have OD&D and have been using it for a few years now. I like Swords & Wizardry's layout, but that's not enough to get me to run it. Sell me on why I should put down OD&D and start running SW ... seriously.
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Re: A General Question

Postby merias » Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:46 pm

JMiskimen wrote:First of all, I'm not trolling this site or anyone who is a member; I have a legitimate question to ask because I keep coming back to it when I consider Swords & Wizardry. I have OD&D and have been using it for a few years now. I like Swords & Wizardry's layout, but that's not enough to get me to run it. Sell me on why I should put down OD&D and start running SW ... seriously.


Welcome! That is not a bad question at all. The short answer is, if you and your players like what you have and are having fun, then there is no reason to change :). There was a time when availability of the OD&D rules might have been a good reason to choose, say, S&W White Box. But in the past week (as I'm sure you are aware), the OD&D PDFs have been re-released. So if you are comfortable with OD&D, now you can print the PDFs of Men & Magic and the relevant bits of Greyhawk (or whatever you use) for your players. That said, S&W White Box is still going to be easier for them to use and understand at the table. Having played both OD&D and S&W, I can attest that ascending armor class and the single save are easier for players to understand if they are new, or coming from newer game systems (some refs like using these options in play as well, finding them simpler and faster, ymmv). Certain things like multi-classing, combat and spell descriptions are clarified and cleaned up. There is still plenty of room for house-ruling, as in OD&D, it's just that the base is much more coherent and whole. I'm sure I'm forgetting some things and others here can add to this list.
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Re: A General Question

Postby jcftao » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:19 pm

For me, the introduction of retro-clones such as Swords and Wizardry and Labyrinth Lord gave a much needed shot in the arm to the hobby.
It provided a way to introduce new players to the games we loved to play. Also it sparked the creativity of those daring to publish new adventures and add their own twist on the original rules.

I would have to say, play what makes you happy. As long as you are having fun, who could ask for more?
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Re: A General Question

Postby JMiskimen » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:55 pm

I'd probably mod the hell out of the rules to get what I want ...LOL. a sort of mish-mash between Complete & Core, using Whitebox as a base ... :D
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Re: A General Question

Postby merias » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:04 pm

JMiskimen wrote:I'd probably mod the hell out of the rules to get what I want ...LOL. a sort of mish-mash between Complete & Core, using Whitebox as a base ... :D


Sounds cool, if you decide to do this let us know. My White Box house rules pull from Core and a few other systems - notably OD&D and Holmes Basic (I really like the Holmes scroll creation rules).
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Re: A General Question

Postby Mach Front » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:23 am

I would post here but it seems that merias posts here so I don't have to! lol :D

Despite OD&D's undeniably inherent flavor, WB is just so much easier to reference, deal with, and house rule.
For my part I wish the single save with class and/or race save mods had always been a part of D&D. It's not that I think (as many) that the five ol' saves are 'weird', but that they should be balanced but are clearly not. Clerics absolutely have the best saves in general and thieves have absolutely the worst saves in general (despite their fast advancement....not as fast as all that as many imagine).

Also, though it's irritating there's no thief in WB, many who play just and only 3LBB OD&D include thieves. Considering this, it's so nice to add a thief to WB that doesn't absolutely suck in most ways. ;)
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Re: A General Question

Postby merias » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:42 am

Mach Front wrote:I would post here but it seems that merias posts here so I don't have to! lol :D


Lol! No, please keep posting! There is room for all of us :).

Also, though it's irritating there's no thief in WB, many who play just and only 3LBB OD&D include thieves. Considering this, it's so nice to add a thief to WB that doesn't absolutely suck in most ways. ;)


I don't lament the lack of a thief in WB. It gets players to describe what their PCs are doing. Don't just 'search for traps'. Tell me you are 'Running a dagger along the edge of the chest lid', or some such. But I add it if the players ask for one, some really like the idea of being sneaky and back-stabby. The trick is to give them a halfway decent chance of being sneaky at low levels.
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Re: A General Question

Postby JMiskimen » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:59 am

I think what appeals to me most about S&W is that absolutely no matter how much stuff is added, it still remains simple to run/play. Our group likes options. They come to the game from different rpg backgrounds. I am adding A LOT of character Classes to satisfy the itch, so to speak. That adds more spells, more weapons, more monsters, more treasure ...MORE! I gotta admit, I'm liking it too - it all comes off detailed, but not too complex to get drowned by its own weight of detail.
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Re: A General Question

Postby merias » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:14 pm

JMiskimen wrote:I think what appeals to me most about S&W is that absolutely no matter how much stuff is added, it still remains simple to run/play. Our group likes options. They come to the game from different rpg backgrounds. I am adding A LOT of character Classes to satisfy the itch, so to speak. That adds more spells, more weapons, more monsters, more treasure ...MORE! I gotta admit, I'm liking it too - it all comes off detailed, but not too complex to get drowned by its own weight of detail.


The recent resurgence of interest in White Box, along with all the new supplements, makes this a great time to play WB. BTW, there was an older compilation of classes for WB called 'White Box Heroes', the PDF is still available for free:

http://swcompanion.wikidot.com/odds-ends

And it is in print at lulu. I actually prefer these classes over the White Box Omnibus versions. You can tell that it was made for the 1st printing of WB because the base hit bonus is in the XP charts of the classes.
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Re: A General Question

Postby JMiskimen » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:55 pm

I know ... I have the PDF and I'm including many of the Character Classes in my right up, as they rock! 8-)

The BHB method is so simple as to be GENIUS. it is what appeals to me most in differences between S&W and OD&D.
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