New Quickstart

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Re: New Quickstart

Postby foxroe » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:31 am

Excellent review, Mr. Fullerton... and welcome to the forums!
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Re: New Quickstart

Postby foxroe » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:57 am

Just a few pages in. I apologize ahead of time... I'm a bit of a grammar Nazi. ;)

- Last paragraph of intro: May want to change "hell" to "heck" if we're expecting young 'uns to be using this. Don't want to rile up any MASW:FMAG groups... ;)
- Dice: first paragraph, second sentence - change "type of dice" to "type of die"; also, last paragraph, "die" should be "dice" (die = singular, dice = plural)
- Creating a Character: second paragraph - change "you may choose from a list" to "you may choose a character from a list"
- Generate Ability Scores: second paragraph, last sentence, change "bonus" to "modifier"
- Generate Ability Scores: ability 'descriptions' - do we want a short sentence of 'flavor text' describing each ability? - also, for Dexterity, insert a "to" before "hit rolls"
Aside: the descriptions reference concepts not yet described in the text - maybe just have a generic statement about modifiers and present the effects as the situations arise in the adventure?
- Pick a Class: change to "You may play as a Human Fighter, Magic-user, Cleric, or Thief. Other options include a Dwarf Fighter or Thief, an Elf Fighter/Magic-user, or a Halfling Fighter or Thief. Write your choice down on your character sheet."
- Select Equipment: the "(Gold pieces...)" clause should be before the period. Also, move "(on page xx)" to after "Lists"
- Using the character record sheet: Mentions "Swords & Wizardry White Box", but the game is WB:FMAG...
- Cleric: maybe present allowable weapons instead of listing weapons not allowed
- Turning Undead: second sentence, change all of the "their"'s to "his or her" - also, last sentence, change "they roll" to "he or she rolls" (or maybe "the player rolls")
- Turning undead (new option) - same here, the "they"'s and "their"'s need to be singular since the text is referencing a single player Cleric
- Magic-user: combine the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs into one.
- Magic-user: 2nd paragraph refers to "section on magic spells" - should be clearly identifiable as to specifically where to look
- Thief: last sentence of first paragraph, change ";" to ","
- Thief: second paragraph, change "and can use any" to ", but can use"
- Adventuring: 6th paragraph, 7th sentence, change "become harder to die" to "become harder for your character to die"
- A character's actions: 1st paragraph. last sentence, should be a ";" after "no" and a "," after "or"
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Re: New Quickstart

Postby The Wanderer » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:28 pm

Thank you Guy and Foxroe for all the feedback. I'll work on adding all the suggestions and changes this week.
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Re: New Quickstart

Postby The Wanderer » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:48 pm

I'm not sure what to do about descending AC. I like the simplicity and less possible confusion for new players with just ascending AC. BUT this was a S&W product and I feel like maybe we should pay homage to that by saying on the cover "Compatible with Swords & Wizardry".

I wanted it updated to White Box:FMAG cause I feel it's the most up to date version and we can use the name inside the book without issue. Just replacing Swords & Wizardry with White Box. But I'm not sure if I want to lose being able to say compatible with S&W. Eh, decisions, decisions... This may he something I save to the very last
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Re: New Quickstart

Postby merias » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:08 pm

Agree, I think it is important to keep the S&W compatibility for a S&W quickstart. Also, as an intro to OSR-style play, I think a brief explanation of descending AC is helpful since players who continue to play or interact with the community will come across it at some point.

Removing alignment I'm OK with, although having it as a base (even if mentioned once, briefly) does help to explain parts of the game like 'protection from evil' and the reversed cleric spells.
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Re: New Quickstart

Postby Guy Fullerton » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:29 pm

The Wanderer wrote:I'm not sure what to do about descending AC. I like the simplicity and less possible confusion for new players with just ascending AC. BUT this was a S&W product and I feel like maybe we should pay homage to that by saying on the cover "Compatible with Swords & Wizardry".

You should probably prioritize/rank your intended purposes of this Quick Start, and share what you decide. What is more important: Utility, or paying homage? What value does each of those possible priorities deliver? How much dissonance does each of those bring to the table?

Alternatively, you could always ask Mythmere for permission to indicate compatibility despite including both AC designations. He gave permission to do that for the original Quick Start; he may do it for this one. (Meaning: S&W's Compatibility License isn't the only way of getting permission to indicate compatibility.)
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Re: New Quickstart

Postby Guy Fullerton » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:14 pm

References to ability, abilities, etc. should be changed to attribute.

Another area of discord with White Box: The use of attribute bonuses is an optional rule in White Box, but almost a default rule in the current Quick Start draft. (I do see that the language was changed slightly, relative to the original QS, to make the use less concrete.) It's probably useful to indicate somewhere that the new QS more-or-less assumes the use of the optional rule.

Or you could ditch the attribute bonuses entirely, except for the built-in effects (HP from Con, missile to hit from Dex). If you do this, consider including a "What Are Attributes For" blurb that points to the full game for some optional rules on how attributes can affect play. Of course, you could instead include the full optional rule; I think this can be handled pretty simply with a rewording and reorganization of the new QS's attribute section.

The QS's description of how to use the Cha attribute modifier (when dealing with hirelings) doesn't match the full game's Charisma Loyalty modifier. You could just remove all mention of hirelings from the QS, and paint the Cha attribute modifier as about interactions in general. Or at least mention, in the referee section, that the Cha attribute bonus handling is slightly different from the full game, for brevity. Or even include the full Loyalty rule.

Finally, the new QS's specific costs for fighter hirelings (25 gp / adventure, or 10 gp / adventure for poor/mediocre fighters) doesn't match the base game. The closest thing in the base game is a soldier hireling's 5 gp / week cost.
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Re: New Quickstart

Postby The Wanderer » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:16 pm

Damn. Lots of stuff to update. This might take longer than a week.

I didn't know that about the original Quick start. I just assumed the license was different back then. I think contacting Matt and asking could be a good idea and solve both issues. Anyone have his email?
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Re: New Quickstart

Postby Guy Fullerton » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:20 pm

The Wanderer wrote:I didn't know that about the original Quick start. I just assumed the license was different back then.

The both-AC-notations-required element of the license hasn't ever changed. (It was even in the v0 draft version that happened to have some different license details on other aspects.)

I think contacting Matt and asking could be a good idea and solve both issues. Anyone have his email?

Yes. PM forthcoming...
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Re: New Quickstart

Postby The Wanderer » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:00 pm

This is my plan of attack:

I'll do 3 passes.

1. Changes from my own proof read.
2. The low hanging fruit from everyone's suggestions
3. Everything else from everyone's suggestions.

Hopefully doing it this way will keep it all straight and I won't miss anything.

I do think it will take me more than a week. I have 2 young kids and I do most my work after they go to sleep.

So my goal is to have the draft updated and ready for edit by 1/29 and hopefully I will have heard something from Matt regarding the descending AC.
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