Pre-greyhawk thief

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Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby merias » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:02 am

Zenopus archives has a nice, one-page refsheet of the original thief class, statted with d6 HD. I think this would work well with WB.

http://zenopusarchives.blogspot.com/201 ... thief.html
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Re: Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby Mach Front » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:26 am

Yeah, I dig this. I was already considering using it, but I'd like my WB thief to be very...ermm..WhiteBox-y. That is to say: each WB class is so shortly presented, then the thief seems like this big, complex thing (in WB terms/vision).
The perfect S&W:WB thief (note, different from a D&D thief), IMO would be presented just as simply as the other WB classes.
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Re: Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby merias » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:51 am

What do you think of the Delving Deeper thief? Or is that _too_ simple with a single, 4-in-6 chance of skill success that never gets better? The White Box Omnibus thief uses a single d6 - the chance increases with level, this seems a good compromise. I have a version of the thief here for WB:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByYame2 ... Y2YnM/edit

Where the player picks 1d3 skills from a pool at first level, each succeeding with a roll of 6 or lower on 2d6. Then, as they go up levels, they can choose to get better at existing skills, or pick new ones. Maybe a bit much on the skills list, but at least it solves the problem of 1st level thieves sucking. One of my players used this for a while in an OD&D campaign and liked the choice aspect.
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Re: Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby ken-do-nim » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:47 pm

What is the argument for adding the thief to the White Box game vs. switching up to Core?

I too was surprised that the Delving Deeper thief never improves his chance to get better. I've seen variations of all the all-d6 thief such as yours and they seem fine. One thing I would change:

Climb Walls: The rogue can climb sheer surfaces that would normally be unclimbable by others. Assume any failure occurs at halfway up the surface being climbed, and results in a fall. Falling damage is normally 1d6 per 10 feet fallen (but see The Art of Falling, below).

I usually do:

Climb rate is 10 feet per round, make the check every round. Failure means roll a d6, 1-3 is no progress made that round, 4-6 is a fall.
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Re: Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby merias » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:24 pm

ken-do-nim wrote:I usually do:

Climb rate is 10 feet per round, make the check every round. Failure means roll a d6, 1-3 is no progress made that round, 4-6 is a fall.


Very interesting - my first thought is every 10 feet is rolling way too often, but I like that it makes climbing walls not a black and white climb/fall thing. It mimics how climbing works in real life - pausing to survey various handholds, or to get a better grip.
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Re: Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby ken-do-nim » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:10 pm

merias wrote:
ken-do-nim wrote:I usually do:

Climb rate is 10 feet per round, make the check every round. Failure means roll a d6, 1-3 is no progress made that round, 4-6 is a fall.


Very interesting - my first thought is every 10 feet is rolling way too often, but I like that it makes climbing walls not a black and white climb/fall thing. It mimics how climbing works in real life - pausing to survey various handholds, or to get a better grip.


The first time you have a thief try to climb walls while a combat is in progress you realize the need to have a per-round system.
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Re: Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby Mach Front » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:13 am

ken-do-nim wrote:What is the argument for adding the thief to the White Box game vs. switching up to Core?


The sucks in Core too. ;)

Actually, for me it would be that with Core one must take also all those extra spells, the variable HD and weapon damage and, worst of all, the monster multiple attacks/damage. Also, with the most recent printing to match Complete those wonky ability score bonuses (rather than when Core had +1 for every ability along the same curve, as WB does now).
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Re: Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby merias » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:05 pm

Mach Front wrote:Actually, for me it would be that with Core one must take also all those extra spells, the variable HD and weapon damage and, worst of all, the monster multiple attacks/damage. Also, with the most recent printing to match Complete those wonky ability score bonuses (rather than when Core had +1 for every ability along the same curve, as WB does now).


The earlier printings of White Box and Core were more honest. Later printings changed quite a bit and (just in my opinion) it appeared the things added were to appease complaints - like adding a standard saving throw table, or making ascending AC the option instead of the default - remember that the WB first printing has the AAC base hit bonus right there in the class XP charts. Which is a shame because S&W deserves to be played for what it is, not as a clone of some other system. It's why I put PDFs of the older printings in the free resources section of the forum (I still need PDFs of the previous Core printings, btw, if anyone has them).
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Re: Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby Mike » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:02 am

I really like the idea that anyone can perform "thief" abilities with the appropriate die throw but thieves are guaranteed success once they reach the appropriate level. For example you might say that the well worn "climb" skill is known to the thief from level one. He requires no die throw to scale anything, he's that good. At level 3 he can crack any lock given the appropriate tools and the necessary time. Of course at levels one and two if he wants to pick a lock he needs to make a throw just like his non-thief colleagues.
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Re: Pre-greyhawk thief

Postby LouGoncey » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:44 am

Love the DELVING DEEPER thief -- so much so that I am using the 3+ thieving abilities roll to replace the chart in S&W Complete. Everyone else can try to do thief abilities on a roll of 5+. Keeps the skill system the same -- roll a six-sided dice and see the result...
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