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The Elf

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:03 am
by cbarchuk
How is this race understood when using alternating Fighter & Magic User rules? The book states:

Elves may use either the Fighter or Magic-User class advancement charts, to be announced at the start of an adventure. They are typically allowed to progress to 4th level as Fighters and 8th level as Magic-Users.

So is this at the start of a whole adventure or campaign or simply at the start of a session within an adventure? Just curious how you play this if at all or if you usually just use the variant Elf version? Thanks.

Re: The Elf

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:50 pm
by merias
cbarchuk wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:03 am
Elves may use either the Fighter or Magic-User class advancement charts, to be announced at the start of an adventure. They are typically allowed to progress to 4th level as Fighters and 8th level as Magic-Users.

So is this at the start of a whole adventure or campaign or simply at the start of a session within an adventure? Just curious how you play this if at all or if you usually just use the variant Elf version? Thanks.
I always took that to mean a real-world gaming session or group of sessions in between trips to town or other safe haven. So if a party descends into a dungeon and your group plays three sessions before the party heads back to town, the Elf would be earning experience for their chosen class for all three sessions.

In my own OD&D campaign, which uses the same rules for Elves, the player who has an Elf always decides what class to put the XP in when I award it, which is right after the party makes it back to their home base. I guess it makes no difference either way - the way I allow Elves to be played, they get the best attack/saving throw rolls from both classes, and can cast spells in magical armor. There is no benefit to "choosing" a class at the start of an adventure, since they are acting as both during the game.

Re: The Elf

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:13 pm
by cbarchuk
I like that. So you essentially allow them to start off as a 1/1 Fighter Magic User allowing to them to play as both at the same time. I assume you allow them access to abilities of the fighter and magic user at the same even at level 1?

Re: The Elf

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:24 pm
by merias
Yes, but I do not allow Elves to cast spells in non-magical armor (actually I make an exception for Elvish chain). So at level 1/1 the only real choice they have is whether or not to wear armor. They can still use a longsword or bow, for example.

Re: The Elf

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:11 pm
by cbarchuk
Hey I forgot to ask how do you figure out HP at level 1? And I assume which ever class levels up simply rolls what new HD it receives?

Re: The Elf

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:43 am
by merias
I use Fighter HD at 1st level for Elves. But you can also average the HP for both classes, rounding up, or roll for each class and take the higher result. Personally, I like to keep it simple, and use Fighter HD at 1st level, then after that, whatever class levels up gets a roll (of all HD), with a minimum gain of +1.

Re: The Elf

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:34 pm
by cbarchuk
Hey Doug,

I have another leveling question about the Elf but its concerning DD. If I have an Elf who's a level 4 Fighter/level 7 Magic-User would he have 9+5 HD? I'm just trying make sure my math is correct.

Here's the Fighter at level 4

Level 1 0---1+2
Level 2 2,000---2+1
Level 3 4,000---3
Level 4 8,000---4

Here's the Magic-User up to level 7

Level 1 0 ---1
Level 2 2,500---1+1
Level 3 5,000---2
Level 4 10,000---3
Level 5 20,000---3+1
Level 6 35,000---4
Level 7 60,000---5

Re: The Elf

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:30 pm
by merias
cbarchuk wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:34 pm
Hey Doug,

I have another leveling question about the Elf but its concerning DD. If I have an Elf who's a level 4 Fighter/level 7 Magic-User would he have 9+5 HD? I'm just trying make sure my math is correct.
Hey Chuck - no, that gives Elves too many HP on average, as compared to other classes. There are a few ways to handle HD for multi-class Elves. The Gygax method was to add up all HD and divide by two, rounding up. So in your example, (9d6+5)/2. Another method is one I prefer, just roll all HD when the Elf gains a level (rolling for whichever class, not both). If the total is higher than what the Elf has currently, keep it. Otherwise use the existing HP (I actually add 1 hp in that case so there at least some small bump at each level gain).

Re: The Elf

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:53 pm
by cbarchuk
I'm really surprised this isn't well explained in DD or Oe for the matter as I find it very confusing. I have a level 6 Elf in BX that I'm converting over to DD just for fun. In DD, this is the only description you get:

Elves begin as either fighters or magic-users but can change class between
adventures as often as desired. An elf becomes dual-classed when he changes
class for the first time and may thereafter use both the weaponry of a fighter and
the spells of a magic-user simultaneously.
The dual-classed character must maintain separate experience point totals for
each of his classes, with all earned experience going toward his currently active
class. He uses the more favorable game statistics of both classes during play but
cannot act as a magic-user while wearing non-magical armor


There's nothing here concerning HD. I get the whole keeping separate experience totals and such. And so has I leveled up my elf I simply rolled the HD for the level gained. So if I gained level 2 as a magic-user then I rolled what HD it says for level 2. Very confusing. So say I achieved level 5 as a magic-user. I would roll 3d6+1. If that ended up being higher than my current HP total I would replace that total with the amount I just rolled?

Re: The Elf

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:20 am
by merias
cbarchuk wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:53 pm
So if I gained level 2 as a magic-user then I rolled what HD it says for level 2. Very confusing. So say I achieved level 5 as a magic-user. I would roll 3d6+1. If that ended up being higher than my current HP total I would replace that total with the amount I just rolled?
Yep, that's how I do it. I think it's actually easier than dividing by two from totals on two separate charts, you just have to track each class as you gain levels.