Smoldering Wizard's Old-School Gaming Forums

Hey Doug,

Hope all is well. I've been tweaking my own Elf class. Trying to fine a middle ground between your version and the variant in the book. Wanted to get your thoughts. Thanks!

Chuck

Hi Chuck!

I took a look and that seems like a decent version of the race-class, slanted towards the fighter side of things - I see you have limited spell casting ability as compared to MUs (or even the Elf Variant in the FMAG rules), but allow a bonus to-hit with bows and swords, and give fighter saves and hit bonuses. My own rules only allow spell-casting in magical or Elvish chain, but that is for the non-race-as-class Elf, I think allowing spell-casting in normal chain armor is a good compromise.

Here's an idea I just thought of (probably not original given how many people fiddle with the Elf in old-school D&D ), but maybe the Elf can choose to specialize as a fighter (your version), or a MU (standard MU spell progression, but no added to-hit bonuses and slower hit bonus progression).

Thanks for your feedback Doug. Here was my thought:

The Elf variant in the book only has up to level 3 spells and doesn't get its first one till 5,000xp later at level 2. So I copied the MU spell progression for levels 1,2 and 3 but the acquisition of level 2 and 3 spells doesn't occur till 4th and 7th level. I hope that makes sense. In other words the Elf variant doesn't get level 2 spells till 4th level and doesn't gain level 3 spells till 7th level. But I just noticed that at 6th and 9th level no spells are gained. I just realized this is because I'm allowing spells at first level. So I need to make an adjustment. But the goal was to make the Elf a better fighter than the variant, allow spells at 1st level and also to reduce the XP needed to level. I just tweaked the spell levels to reflect this error.

Level 1 spell progression for an Elf will be the same as the MU. MU's get their first Level 2 spell at 3rd level. Elf will get theirs at 4th level. MU's get their first Level 3 spell at 5th level while the Elf will get theirs at 6th level. But otherwise the progression follows the MU.

God I hope what I just wrote made an ounce of sense. But to your idea about picking either or is super cool. I may fiddle around with that as an option. It's less complicated too. Thanks for the suggestion.

Yep it makes sense! One minor thing, when I read "Spellcasting: The same as a Wizard" I originally thought that meant the spell acquisition was the same, but as you say it's a level off from MUs. I think you mean the mechanics of memorizing and casting spells are the same. Anyway, that is no big deal, it looks good. Thanks for sharing it.

Yep, that's correct. I changed the wording around a bit to hopefully make more sense. The fine folks at the WBFMAG FB group also recommended that I limit the armor to Leather or Magical Chainmail. So added that as well. I also nerfed HD progression some too. Here's hopefully the final below to reflect all of these changes.

cbarchuk wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:21 pm

Yep, that's correct. I changed the wording around a bit to hopefully make more sense. The fine folks at the WBFMAG FB group also recommended that I limit the armor to Leather or Magical Chainmail. So added that as well. I also nerfed HD progression some too. Here's hopefully the final below to reflect all of these changes.

This is awesome. Thanks for sharing on the FB group as well, we're trying to drive traffic here, so this is great.

Bump

Doug,

I've been doing some more tweaking and this is my current Elf Class. I lowered the XP to 3500. I'm even pondering the idea of going as low as 3000. Good choice, bad choice? I also felt like keeping the level limits as well just to stay closer to the FMAG rules. I added back in the "hereditary foes" ability though I don't really like it all that much. I mean what heck is intelligent undead? I think I like the +1 damage with magic weapons better. Are there any other changes you would recommend? Any OD&D-isms that I should add?

The hereditary foes and ghoul paralysis both come from chainmail, not in those exact forms but interpreted as that, but the +1 damage with magic weapons is straight from Men & Magic. here is the relevant bit of the Elf monster entry:

"Elves have the ability of moving silently and are nearly invisible in their gray-green cloaks. Elves armed with magical weapons will add one pip to dice rolled to determine damage, i.e. when a hit is score the possible number of damage points will be 2–7 per die. Elves on foot may split move and fire.

It's always a debate whether PC Elves should get the listed special abilities, especially the "gray-green cloaks" thing, which can be seen as giving all Elves a magical Elven cloak - as a monster entry you could just give NPC Elves those abilities. I definitely do not give all Elves the Elven cloak. I do use split move and fire by always allowing PC Elves 2 bow shots per combat round, even in rounds they make a half move (other classes I limit to 1 shot per round unless they are stationary).

On the XP - I would be careful lowering it too much, especially since you are allowing armor and spell use together. Personally I'd keep it at the combined total for both classes as a way to offset the benefits Elves get.

"Intelligent undead" yeah kind of vague - I'd treat it as the more powerful undead like vampires, maybe even powerful undead-like creatures like demons. Up to you of course.

The hereditary foes and ghoul paralysis both come from chainmail, not in those exact forms but interpreted as that, but the +1 damage with magic weapons is straight from Men & Magic.

Between Hereditary Foes and bonus damage with magic weapons which one do you feel is more fitting or interesting?

On the XP - I would be careful lowering it too much, especially since you are allowing armor and spell use together. Personally I'd keep it at the combined total for both classes as a way to offset the benefits Elves get.

Fixed. Okay basically the only difference between my version and the variant in the book is less XP requirement (4,500), Fighter attack bonus progression, and the ability to cast a spell at first level.