Question about rulings - grapple

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ratmanof
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:58 pm

Question about rulings - grapple

Post by ratmanof »

Hey.

How have you ruled grappling in Your game - if a player (or a team of players) want to overbear, pin, subdue an opponent?

I am looking for a super simple mechanics that follows (more or less) my tenets for game design.

My tenets for rules and rulings that apply here:

* experience beats genetics (levels mean more than stats)
* system must be robust and easy to use (re-use available mechanic as much as possible)
* dangerous idea might reap great benefits
* BUT no shenanigan should be universally so good, that everyone starts using it in every situation
* K.I.S.S.

Any good advice for that situation?

JimboJimbo
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:59 am

Re: Question about rulings - grapple

Post by JimboJimbo »

I quite like the swords & wizardy method myself. It's quick, simple, and does the job. Obviously, YMMV.
Attachments
Grappling.JPG

ratmanof
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:58 pm

Re: Question about rulings - grapple

Post by ratmanof »

That is the translation of the old Gygax rule.

The things I don´t like:
1) Attack roll against target - plate mail should not offer much protection against grappling;
2) stunning the enemies if target wins - sounds weird for me

The things I like:
1) opposed HD rolls - quick and easy, and experience counts.

I think I try to rewrite the rule to my liking a bit. I think attacker should roll nothing, but the target should have a chance to either dodge the attack (saving throw) or beat it back if armed (free attack of opportunity against the attacker). If either is successful the grapple just fails.

But I have to test it a bit and see if I can streamline it a bit more...

JimboJimbo
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Re: Question about rulings - grapple

Post by JimboJimbo »

ratmanof wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:21 pm
That is the translation of the old Gygax rule.

The things I don´t like:
1) Attack roll against target - plate mail should not offer much protection against grappling;
2) stunning the enemies if target wins - sounds weird for me

The things I like:
1) opposed HD rolls - quick and easy, and experience counts.

I think I try to rewrite the rule to my liking a bit. I think attacker should roll nothing, but the target should have a chance to either dodge the attack (saving throw) or beat it back if armed (free attack of opportunity against the attacker). If either is successful the grapple just fails.

But I have to test it a bit and see if I can streamline it a bit more...
Fair points. Arguably, heavy armour would make you easier to grapple and I'm guessing the stun was put in as negative affect of attempting a risky attack.

I'd definitely go for the opportunity attack for an armed defender. I'm interested to know how you get on with your playtesting.

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merias
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Re: Question about rulings - grapple

Post by merias »

This is the system I've used before, as you say @ratmanof it's the Gygax rule from his OD&D FAQ. I like it because it keeps the process abstract, which is how I like my combats. That said the most consistent yet still fairly simple grappling system I've seen is the one in BFRPG (pp. 48-49 of the latest rules).

ratmanof
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:58 pm

Re: Question about rulings - grapple

Post by ratmanof »

OK, rewrote the Gygax original a bit to my liking. How does that seem now:

Unarmed combat against armed opponents is very dangerous and provokes attack opportunity from the defender (successful hit ends the unarmed attack). Unarmed hit (punching/kicking) causes 1d2 damage, at least half of which is subdual. A word to the wise - tavern brawls are more efficiently conducted with chairs than with fists.

Alternatively, any combatant (or a group of up to 6 combatants surrounding), may attempt to grapple and subdue an opponent more or less of their size. Defender may either dodge the grab (by saving throw) or fend off the attack with a weapon (an attack of opportunity). Either success ends that attempt. If a grab was successful, the hit dice of all attackers is totalled and rolled. The target must then roll a number of dice equal to his own hit dice. Strength bonuses or penalties, if any, are added to both sides. If the attackers’ total is greater than that of the defender, the target is considered pinned and may be disarmed, shackled, bound, knocked-out, or otherwise subdued next round. If the defender’s total prevails, he throws off the grapple attempt. If the attacker’s and defender’s dice are tied, they are struggling, with the defender still on his feet but unable to make normal melee attacks (unless using natural or small weapons against grappler). Another set of grappling rolls will be made on the next round, in which the defender does not have the ability to fend off or dodge the attackers.

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