New White Box 4th Printing

[merias]

For those not aware, Matt just published the WB 4th printing. I bought the PDF, and took a look with an eye towards seeing what is new:

• Added vol 3 info on dungeon doors, secret doors, and traps.
• Random dungeon stocking procedure, with monster tables.
• Hidden (unattended) treasure table, with an associated random trap table.
• Random castle encounters.
• Mostly new artwork.
• A new license, the AELF Open License, which looks like a fixed OGL.

There might be other stuff that is new, but I did not exhaustively compare the text to the 3rd printing. Most of the added rules text comes from the S&W Complete Revised edition as far as I can tell (and most of that had its origins in the original S&W Core printings), although the hidden treasure/trap tables appear to be all new.

The rest seems identical to the 3rd printing, including errata like the broken turn undead table, missing combat movement and incorrect treasure table rolls. I like the new info and tables - they make WB a more playable game for new refs especially - but I'm disappointed that there was no effort to fix some of the long-standing errata. It's also curious that the new edition comes about 14 years after Matt had said he was leaving WB to the fans. We came together in this forum around 2016/2017 to help Charlie with WB FMAG, which addressed most of the errata and has essentially been the "WB fan edition" since then.

I don't mean for this to be all negative - I think the PDF is worth it for the new tables alone - but I can't see myself using this over FMAG at the table, especially given the errata. It's also worth noting that the PDF is not free, and the POD is pricey at $21 USD, so this might impact adoption (in fairness, the FMAG POD is the same price at DTRPG, but FMAG is still sold at or close to cost on Amazon).

[William]

Thanks for putting the word out about this Merias. I have heard nothing about it at all, even though I'm on Mythmere's mailing list.

I'm happy with my 3rd printing of White Box, as I am using Complete at the moment anyway. I've also got a copy of White Box FMAG in PDF. The new cover art looks nice, but there's nothing about it that appeals to me over the 3rd printing cover art, though I suppose new rules might be good. But, if as you say the new rules have been drafted in from Complete and Core then I don't suppose I have any need for it anyway, as I have both the new Complete and the 4th printing of Core.

I'm also a bit surprised that Matt and Co. have made a return to White Box.

I didn't realise that the Turn Undead table in White Box is broken. I guess that I will have to give it another look.

Bill

[merias]

I didn't realise that the Turn Undead table in White Box is broken. I guess that I will have to give it another look.

Yes, if you compare the (corrected) FMAG table with the 3rd printing of WB, you will see the left column is incorrect as far as the creatures and their hit dice. Easily fixed, and a point of discussion way back in Matt's own forums. In fairness, that was along time ago , still it's surprising a fresh review did not catch it.

[badams30]

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm kind of pumping the brakes on my Kickstarter and new/revised ruleset purchases for the time being. I'm pretty happy with FMAG as-is, and the new version of S&W Complete, and then I got Shadowdark and Moldvay and OSE and Pits & Perils and BFRPG and Iron Falcon all in my stable, so I'm overloaded at the moment. So I'll be watching from the sidelines to see if I'll jump in down the road.

Too much game stuff. Imagine such a thing, pfffffft.

[William]

Yeah it's easy to spend a load of money on gaming stuff, especially when it's nice new hardbacks! Sooner or later you've got more of a collection than what you can possibly use.

Pits & Perils

This looks really quite good. I've checked it out online and it looks sort of like a cross between White Box style gaming and B/X.
Have you seen the hardback deluxe edition at all? It's available on Lulu and I've been thinking about investing in it. Is it fully comprehensive i.e. it includes all the rules including the Referee's Companion? There's a description on Lulu but it's a little bit vague as to what is actually included in it.

Bill

[merias]

Started a Pits & Perils thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=606

[badams30]

Yeah it's easy to spend a load of money on gaming stuff, especially when it's nice new hardbacks! Sooner or later you've got more of a collection than what you can possibly use.

Pits & Perils

This looks really quite good. I've checked it out online and it looks sort of like a cross between White Box style gaming and B/X.
Have you seen the hardback deluxe edition at all? It's available on Lulu and I've been thinking about investing in it. Is it fully comprehensive i.e. it includes all the rules including the Referee's Companion? There's a description on Lulu but it's a little bit vague as to what is actually included in it.

Bill

Sorry, Bill, I saw the other P&P thread first. I bought the hardcover deluxe, it's pretty good, has some additional stuff in it, plus a little bit of a campaign setting. I forgot what I paid for it (See, I've got problems..) but it was totally worth it.